Workers' Liberty

Just wanted to make a couple of observations about the day school and a couple of suggestions. But first off I'd like to thank the AWL for inviting Permanent Revolution to debate on the day. Also thought 40-50 people (nearly all young) wasn't a bad turn out given the DLR line was down.

These are organisational comments rather than political comments about the debates which I'll try and come back to later, especially on the question of the AWL saying people shouldn't raise "troops out now" doesn't equate to saying they want the troops to stay for now. I just couldn't get my head around that logic!

An introduction?

Please take this as a constructive comment but I think some of the sessions (especially the inter-left debate sessions) weren't right for a conference that is meant to be an introduction to marxism. I spoke to one person afterwards who was new to marxism and she said those debates were extremely hard to follow if you were new to it all and I have to agree. The debates were framed in a way that you would have to have known quite a bit of marxist theory and quite a bit about inter-left disagreements to have any clue what is going on.

What is the point of inter-left debate?

I know the AWL say they pride themselves on debating the rest of the left but there is part of me that thinks that inter-left debates as they are at the moment don't seem to achieve much.

Firstly there is the way people debate, often caricaturing others points (which happened quite a few times, and not just by the AWL), getting needlessly aggressive when people don't agree with what they are saying (it's just a political disagreement not personal) and tub thumping interventions which make the left look like nutters (Workers Power were particuarly bad on this, as was Mark Osborne and a couple of other more experienced AWLers). I often wonder what these debates must look like to people who are new to politics and to be honest.

So although I think constructive debates are important do these kind of inter-left debates do anything? Because firstly I'm almost 100% that people who are established in groups aren't going to change the politics that underline the ideology of their group. I think that kind of change will only come from material experiences combined with debate. And secondly they generally just look nuts to newer people and if anything will just put them off.

How to run sessions

The AWL was very democratic in letting people from other left organisations speak (and were very fair on this level), but just a couple of points. Firstly there is a tendency in left organisations to let leadership figures get away with stuff in terms of the chair not stepping in. In one session the chair continually tried in vain to cut Mark Osborne off from a very long intervention but couldn't do so and obviously felt a bit nervous at doing so. I think people in the leadership of organisations should take this on board and realise that just because they are leadership figure doesn't mean they can ignore the chair. I'd also suggest that someone have a word with Mark Osborne and tell him that it doesn't look very good when he sits there looking like he is asleep while the introductions are given!

Hi Dan,

Thanks for coming, and thanks for the comments. I'd encourage others who attended the event - whether you're in the AWL, another group, or no group - to post their thoughts here (or email them to me at sacha@workersliberty.org) so we can improve things for future events. Please bear in mind that this is the first time we've done anything like this for a little while, so we are very much in need of constructive criticism. A few thoughts of my own:

I agree that not all the sessions were "introductory" enough. This partly arose out of amalgamating lots of sessions (we began with a list of about twenty!) and ending up with topics that weren't simple or focused enough. Eg the "Young workers, class struggle and rebuilding the labour movement" session should have been entirely a basic discussion on "Why the working class?"/"What is the working class?", which is what a lot of people needed to set a framework for the school.

In addition, we should have had fewer sessions, I think, as there wasn't enough time; a problem which was exacerbated by the absence of the DLR, which meant we started about forty minutes late.

In terms of the debates with PR and the Socialist Party, we substituted them for sessions relatively late in the day, because we thought it would be more interesting. I agree this didn't entirely work. However, I don't agree with your more general critique of inter-left debates. In the case of the Socialist Party debate, yes, we just went round and round: very frustrating. But, tub-thumping aside, I think the imperialism debate was genuinely useful for beginning to clarify some of the issues. This was good for people who are not completely new in/around the AWL, but who haven't necessarily been through these debates before (I take the point it may have been different for beginners). I also think constructive debate IS possible between established left activists; we should make efforts to pursue it an a way that is politically sharp and clear, but not personally aggressive. (It's good you've invited Sofie Buckland to speak about socialist feminism at the PR summer event.)

A strange problem arose in the Latin America session, which was supposed to be a workshop but turned into a formal debate because comrades from Fight Racism! Fight Imperialism! turned up. Of course they were perfectly within their rights to do this, but it did skew the whole thing and make it difficult to operate.

There were also some even more directly organisational issues, eg the workers session was not broken into groups until the second half, which meant very few people speaking in the first half and the whole thing getting off to an awkward start. We also need to be more creative with different meeting forms, and more prepared with reading, materials, "stimuli" etc.

On the plus side, the discussion in the liberation/radical chains session was very good, and I had positive reports from the ecology session too.

I hope we'll do something like this again relatively soon, taking into account comments on this event, so please let us know what you think!

PS Thanks to everyone who came to the "Ruby Kid" gig in Holborn, which was great and raised a bit of much needed cash for the AWL...

Hi Sacha,

Thanks for a positive reply. And also well done for organising an event like this with a lot of young people in attendence. I have to say that I felt slightly out of it being an old git and that's why I didn't go to the social haha! But that's a good thing because it means that the event did what it was meant to and got young workers and students along. If you do the event again I'd strongly suggest going for somewhere like ULU in central London as it makes it far easier for people to get to. I know this might cost more but I think it would be worth it.

In terms of introductory sessions I totally agree with your comments. It's better have a few focused sessions that cover the basics. I also think inter-left debates are better left for a different kind of audience than people looking for an introduction.

In terms of inter-left debates more generally it's not that I'm against them, far from it. I just think some on the left have been in a bubble for too long and forget how they come across. I mean did the Workers Power speaker really think that by thumping their hand into their fist it made their point more effective?! Did the people with angry looking faces as someone made a point they disagreed with think that this came across well to a new audience? Don't get me wrong I know the political points are the main thing but I think that part of the reason the far left often comes across this way is because it has been in retreat for so long and been in a divorced bubble for so long detached from the wider workers movement.

Obviously it is in the politics that lies where the far left can turn itself around but it won't help itself it comes across as a bunch of loons. This isn't aimed at the AWL by the way, but the whole far left. Unfortunately most inter-left debates I've ever seen must have been very off putting to people who are new to far left politics.

I did see FRFI shouting at a PR member as they left the building haha! That particular group seem to get a bit worked up sometimes.

I think you're totally right about having creative ideas and mixing things up a bit in the sessions.

Lastly once again well done for getting the day organised.

Cheers

Dan