An open letter to Attila the Stockbroker (and Attila's reply)
Stop the War, punk and sexism (and Attila's reply)
On 27 May, a group of young AWL members went to a Stop the War benefit gig in Balham and caused a bit of a stir by objecting to some lyrics in one of Attila the Stockbroker’s songs. Here one of them shares her thoughts with him.
Dear Attila the Stockbroker,
A GROUP of us, young people, mostly women, came to your recent benefit gig for Wandsworth Stop the War. After enjoying your set, we were shocked by the words of your song “Supermodel” and the hateful language you used to describe women exploited by the fashion industry. We felt uncomfortable that the majority of the audience was oblivious to the sexist undercurrents this poem contained.
Two songs later, when you sang “Hey, Celebrity! Tabloid whore!” we felt there should be a challenge to the acceptance of sexist language from a left-wing singer by a left-wing audience, and we chanted “Sexist” from the back of the room before engaging you in a row outside.
We are not accusing you of being a sexist person. I think it is positive that your politics, the politics you put forward in your songs, include the fight against women’s oppression and that you feel strongly enough about these issues to include them in your act. I do not deny that many women will have welcomed the poem, as it goes some way to identifying the exploitative fashion industry as a problem that needs to be challenged.
But “Supermodel” also conveys negative, hateful depictions of women. It opens: “Prebubescent imagery / Empty, stupid eyes”. And continues: “No fat / No body hair / No character, no love, no personality — no brain / So thin and yet.... / so thick”.
Do you honestly think that women in fashion photos have “no personality”, “no brain”?
Our starting assumption should be that women are exploited by the fashion industry precisely because their abilities are not displayed in these images – because they are used to make money without any interest in their qualities as human beings. For me, branding women in the fashion industry as stupid underestimates the abilities of women. It is based on assumptions that can be deemed sexist.
The most openly sexist aspect of the poem is when you complain that, “I’m supposed to fancy you...../ Well I don’t..../ You revolt me.... I love a real woman”.
Women’s liberation is not about who men fancy, or choosing a “more progressive” form of objectification, promoting one stereotype of a woman’s body over another. We are trying to break away from the idea that women’s bodies are just objects to be fancied. We need your solidarity as human beings, unconditional on our shape and size.
Less openly sexist but also politically problematic is the idea that women are complicit in their oppression: “you connive/ in the corporate enslavement of your sisters”.
Undoubtedly some women will choose to be involved in the industry. But it is wrong to focus your fire at the women and not at the fashion houses, the corporations, the media, the high street labels that produce their garments in sweatshops. You say their bodies are “the unnatural creation of capital”. But your response seems to be to say “I hate you” to the women, not the system that exploits them.
Women here are not victims. But they are exploited. And our response should be to reach out to exploited people to help them end their oppression.
When we talked after the performance, you defended yourself against the allegation that “hating is wrong” by talking about Adolf Hitler! We think it is right that you feel hatred about injustice – but it matters to whom it is directed. We do not think you should focus your hatred on the very people that you should be linking up with in solidarity.
The general political problem with this poem is that it does not see women as the agents of their own liberation. After blaming and scorning them, and positing your own male preference for a larger woman as an alternative, it leaves little space for respect and solidarity.
The attitude is that the fashion industry is a “bad thing” that should be condemned as a whole, including the women who participate in it. A common strand in many women’s rights campaigns at the minute seems to be to campaign to “protect” women from “bad things”, rather than encouraging women to fight their oppression from inside the system.
Thus some feminists are against sex workers fighting their exploitation by joining trade unions; anti-sex-trafficking campaigners want to “protect” what they see as passive “victims” of the industry, rather than helping them to fight for themselves; and there is a campaign to move all sexual images of women to the top shelves, censoring women’s sexuality, rather than allowing them to determine it.
Some of the young people you spoke to are in the Alliance for Workers’ Liberty, some are our friends. Some of us have been involved in organising Feminist Fightback, a socialist feminist conference last October, and other events to put women at the centre of their own liberation.
In our view, it is understandable that your poem should miss the mark, as there is no wider women’s movement to shape the culture we live in. We’re working to change that!
I remember hearing one of your poems, “Contributory negligence”, a brilliant send-up of a judge who acquitted a rapist on the grounds that the woman “asked for it”. Presumably, this poem picked up on the broader messages of the women’s movement of the time.
We hope you take these comments seriously. They are part of a fight for the best possible ideas on women’s liberation within our movement, which is part of our broader fight against exploitation and oppression.
Yours for women’s liberation and socialism,
Becky Crocker
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And what an embarrassment that was....
I didn't catch "Supermodel" as I'd gone to the gents, but to hear people shouting "sexist" just because a song contained the word "whore" seemed like knee-jerk 'political correctness' of the worst sort. I took "whore" as non-gender specific in this context and I'm sure most of the rest of the audience did too (despite the pre-song reference to Paris Hilton).
"Supermodel" seems to me addressed to the images in fashion magazines rather than the women being photographed, but maybe that's a more nuanced reading than Atilla deserves.
Whether the fashion industry in general is part of men's oppression of women is a more interesting question. I suspect the issues are rather more complex.
Political correctness
cbright - If this really is your idea of "'political correctness' of the worst sort", then I seriously envy you, cos you obviosuly haven't experienced it in its worst sort. You know: allowing religions to run schools in the name of multi-culturalism, claiming that white poeple can't have an opinion about racism, allowing employers to boast of their PC credentials cos they appoint some gay managers, etc etc.
Mind you, I'd also be very wary of chiming in with opposition to 'political correctness', since some (not all) of the people who attack it do so because they want licence to be political incorrect ie. bigoted. Incidentally, Attlia has a very good poem about that, which he might care to publish here.
Hi Attila! Give me a ring and we'll maybe visit in the summer holidays.
J
For Becky - some thoughts
Firstly - here;'s the poem. Some haven't read it I'm sure.
For cbright who obviously thinks he's cleverer than me - don't patronise.
Becky - I do understand where you're coming from but you have still missed the point. I am addressing the wider public here, not us lefties. Men are SUPPOSED to 'fancy'supermodels - the peer pressure is on us to say 'phwoargh' as much as it is on the women to starve themselves. When I say NO I reckon I am liberating men and women. And - to reiterate - the phenomenal response to this poem by all but you lot does make me feel 100% justified in my position. It has made me think, not because I think I'm wrong on this but because your analysis on many other issues is refreshing and excellent and I've gone 'yes!!' quite a lot reading your website about other things, so I've thought some more about my poem, but I still stand by it 100%.
But if you think I'm tough on supermodels, you should hear what I've got to say about Eminem...
SUPERMODEL
Prepubescent imagery.
Empty, stupid eyes.
Waif thin.
Tyrannical.
No fat.
No body hair.
No character, no love, no personality -
no brain.
So thin, and yet...
so thick.
By your anodyne complicity
in this gruesome stereotype
you connive
in the corporate enslavement of your sisters
- anorexia, bulimia, self-loathing, fear.
They aspire to be like you
- an unnatural creation of capital -
and wreck their bodies in the process,
destroy their fertility,
tear apart their lives.
But hang on a minute?
Not my place to talk about that?
I’m a man, what do I know?
You’re just trying to earn a living?
What I’m saying has been said before?
OK.
But when the football blokes look
and make some expected remark
I’m supposed to join in.
I’m supposed to fancy you -
or pretend to.
Well, I don’t.
And I won’t.
More than that.
You revolt me.
You give me an inversion.
It’s quite simple really.
I just don’t desire a stupid adman’s toy
styled to look like a prepubescent girl
- a real ‘babe’ -
there in the tabloid
next to the lurid description
of Gary Glitter’s downfall.
I love a real woman.
I won’t buy the product you advertise.
I won’t watch your latest film.
I’m not interested in your poxy TV series
I’ll never set foot in that bloody car
and I hate you.
I know I should just ignore you, or feel sorry for you
but I hate you
and your fashionist masters
bringers of misery
destroyers of individuality
harbingers of despair.
Women and men:
Riot against diet!
Sod the microchip revolution -
let’s have a fish ‘n’ chip one!
Cream bun chocolate cream bun chocolate
lard lard sag aloo beer beer beer!
Riot against diet!
Smash fashionism!
Say goodbye to Hello!
Make Cosmopolitan....cosmopolitan!
Let’s have a real woman’s realm!
Take over the curry house
Fill your freezer full of ice cream
Live
Love
Get real!
100% support for the poem on my blog (as at my gigs!)
Have a look at the blog entry at myspace.com/attilastockbroker -
you will see that your criticism is totally isolated, from the responses on my blog, and I honestly feel that you have missed the point.
This is the only time I have ever had any criticism of this poem, which goes down brilliantly everywhere I go.
In any case, I'm me, I say what I think, and I stand by it! (Although always up for debate!)
Cheers Attila
and it is worth making the
and it is worth making the point here, as on my blog, that a chorus which goes
'hey celebrity, TV bore -
what have you done to be famous for
hey celebrity, tabloid whore -
what do people need you for?'
is obviously non gender specific.
We've all lots else to do - let's get on and do it!
In solidarity
A
a couple of points
Hi Attila,
Can I ask: even if you don't agree with what's being said, do you recognise the existence of issues connected to the following points?
a) That directing your anger at size zero models themselves, rather than at the bosses of the fashion industry, is problematic?
b) That "whore" is by definition gender-specific, and that the context of criticising tabloid-loving celebrities also involves gender issues, since much of the popular criticism of such celebrities is directed specifically at women in a sexist way? (Which is not to say that there isn't a legitimate critique as well, of course - but for me the word "whore" taps into the illegitimate stream...)
(Sorry if my meaning is a bit obscure, I'm not feeling very comfortable with the English language this morning.)
Lastly, I think the comrades were also influenced in their outrage by the appalling politics of Wandsworth Stop the War Coalition - who, for instance, distributed at leaflet at that gig basically arguing that the Iranian regime isn't so bad after all. This is an anti-war movement whose leaders have been willing to make all kinds of very problematic alliances with right-wing Muslims, and one group particular affected by this is women, eg Iraqi women's rights activists who have basically been told to F off. And not long ago Wandsworth STW, famously, held a meeting in a mosque and not only asked women to "dress modestly" and cover their heads, but agreed to gender segregation!!
This is an important and legitimate debate between feminists, but part of the point is that some of the leading lights in Stop the War are anything but feminist. I wonder how it would have gone down that night if you'd made one of your previous jokes about the rulers of Iran?
Sacha Ismail
Meanings of words
Sacha,
I don't think 'whore' is gender-specific "by definition". 'Media whore' is a common term and is applied to men as much as women. It can be, and often is, gender-specific, but not by definition. Like the word 'tart'.
Over to Dictionary Corner ...
I was about to make a similar point to Simon's. I took 'whore' to be non-gender-specific, and I am certain that Attila meant it in that way (I found Becky's points on 'Supermodel' more persuasive).
Anyway, I thought I'd check a few online dictionaries for their definition of 'whore' first, and the results surprised me.
Incidentally, MSN's Encarta dictionary wouldn't let me look it up because it might offend me. Though if I were to pay a premium subscription rate, then it would happily offend me by letting me read it!
I am of course aware that dictionaries do not always reflect the common usage of words, but I think this should at least be food for thought.
Well I had no idea about
Well I had no idea about Wandsworth Stop the War Coalition doing that!
I didn't see the leaflet. And I TOTALLY agree with AWL's stance against alliances with misogynistic, homophobic, reactionary groups (of any kind!) (I am actually very impressed with quite a lot of your politics as it goes, haven't really read that much before, sorry Jan!)
To illustrate that point: song below!
I most certainly direct my anger at the fashion industry (you maybe haven't read the poem?) but I do think supermodels are more than just victims - they are certainly not in the same position as sweatshop workers. As for 'whore' it's non gender specific for me, and I wrote the piece...I do an awful lot of poems/songs attacking MEN, is that OK by you?
Hi Jan, hope all's well - or as well as!
Cheers A
MOHAMMED THE KABUL RED
Here’s a song about a man
Leftist in Afghanistan
Fought against the Taliban
When their backers were American
New way for Afghanistan
Radical, secular programme
Woman liberated, equal to man
But that didn’t suit the American...
Chorus
Mohammed the Kabul Red
Fought bin Laden all the way
Mohammed the Kabul Red
Member of the PDPA
Taliban funded by the CIA
Bin Laden trained by the CIA
Terrorists supported by the CIA
Medieval thugs in Washington’s pay...
Mohammed tortured, hung in the street
Woman stoned for showing her feet
White House says - ‘Job’s complete!
Now we’ve got those Commies beat!’
Chorus
Terrorists strike - fire and flame
And bin Laden gets the blame
Trade Centre bombed, American tears
So why did they fund him for over ten years?
Here’s a song about a man
Leftist in Afghanistan
Fought against the Taliban
When their backers were American
Chorus
P - D - PDPA
P - D - PDPA
P - D - PDPA
P - D - PDPA
I'd like to say one more
I'd like to say one more thing. The poems celebrates the solidarity and love of ORDINARY men and women (look at the last few lines!) and is welcomed precisely because of this. I have a lot of allies in my belief that supermodels are collaborators - not victims - and you, comrades, are an exception. My poem is not sexist. The majority is on my side.
Patronising? Moi?
Janine - surely the whole point about poetry is that it uses words in ways other than their literal dictionary definitions. And while I agree that the other forms of "PC" you mention are of more apparent concern, the implications of trying to shut someone up because you haven't properly listened to what they were saying in the first place are actually quite serious. There is a debate about feminism, pornography and censorship elsewhere on this site which seems to me related. (Agreed on the cover for bigotry argument, by the way, but not when it's used to close down legitimate debate).
Attila, this is hardly a question of who's cleverer than whom, but of what your poem means. If it's addressed to the women themselves it is indeed cruder than I thought it might be.
If we're talking about 'the love of ordinary people', how would a supermodel be any more of a "collaborator" than Brad Pitt, say? (And as a lifelong beanpole I do rather object to the notion that thinness is some sort of crime).
Supermodels are not really intended as sex objects - the fashion industry is mostly run by gay men and thin models are preferred because clothes look better on them and therefore sell better. Women's fashion marketing is aimed at women not men. If we want to find heterosexual sex objects I'd suggest pornography and Page 3 might be better places to start, and the women there don't tend to look undernourished, whatever else they might be.
I think the politics of food, sex and fashion are actually pretty complicated and reducing them to slogans isn't particularly illuminating.
I know a model
I know an ex-model and she is certainly a victim, drug dependency, eating disorder, psychiatric problems. From what I've seen the super-models only differ from that in that they can afford more cocaine. I'm not advocating pity though.
I'm called to mind of the Nazi 'model Jew' who's features caused countless deaths, who's complicity in allowing himself to be photographed and in doing interviews was cited as a humanitarian crime because they used no force or threats on him. His (successful) legal defence was that he wasn't very bright and simply didn't know what was going on. Plenty of very clever people go along with the excess of capitalism so I think the supermodels get a pass on immorality.
Then again art gets a pass on use of language. I really like the poem but I agree with some of the criticisms, it is unfair on the women who do that job but pretty much only for the word 'hate' and hatred tends to be an irrational emotion.
There is after all 'I know I should just ignore you, or feel sorry for you
but I hate you' in there which pretty much clears it up for me, rationally you want to not care about them but emotionally you know they contribute to suffering and profit from it.
disorders
Note from Janine: I strongly suspect this comment is solely designed to promote the private rehab clinic linked to in the comment itself. I have therefore removed the link and if people think my suspicions are correct, we should probably delete the whole comment.
Although it is proven that eating disorders and substance abuse frequently co-exist nobody understands exactly why. There are four potential explanations: "the two disorders have different causes, but the presence of one disorder may increase the person's chances of developing the other, An independent disorder causes the both disorders, The two disorders have some risk factors in common, whereas other risk factors are specific to each disorder and Both disorders are shared manifestations of a shared underlying etiology" (California Drug Rehab Lilenfeld 1996). This last hypothesis has been studied the most extensively. Supporters of this theory believe that eating disorders and substance and abuse disorders are manifestations of a predisposition toward impulsivity which relates to "a common mechanism involving endogenous opioids. Endogenous opioid compounds that occur naturally in the body and act like opiates have been shown to play a role in regulating alcohol consumption as well as appetite" (Lilenfeld 1996).
'Contributory Negligence'- I
'Contributory Negligence'- I remember that from my youth. Showing my age I guess. Brilliant poem. On this one dunno I think the AWL's criticism is kinda worth raising actually but still the poem does criticise the industry and the whole advertising crap thrown at us
"I won’t buy the product you advertise.
I won’t watch your latest film.
I’m not interested in your poxy TV series
I’ll never set foot in that bloody car
and I hate you."
Good stuff- I’d like to see more poetry on leftwing websites- in fact may write some myself!
Sure the venom should be directed more at the boss at the top than the woman in the ad but still it raises some good points. May be should be part of a poetry project in a school, college or adult education project or whatever to have the debate, reactions, songs, poems, videos etc.
Hey I've just devised a scheme of work!